Season: 10 Episode: 150
Listen to episode 146 in Spanish:
Summary:
In today’s episode, we’re diving into an important conversation about relationships—how to recognize real friendships from faux ones, and whyunderstanding the Relationship Ladder is crucial for dating, friendships, and beyond. Inspired by a recent marriage retreat and my latest blog post, “Friend orFaux,” we’ll explore the five rungs of the relationship ladder: Knowledge, Recreation, Emotion, Spiritual, and Physical. We’ll talk about which apply to allrelationships and which are reserved for marriage. Plus, I’ll share why I raised the dating age for my youngest to 18 and how we can help our kids—andourselves—navigate relationships with biblical wisdom and clarity. Don’t miss this one—it’s foundational.
Intro
Hey guys! Welcome back to another episode of the Her Faith Inspires podcast where we tackle cultural issues through the lens of Scripture. Today we’re going to talk about something my husband and I heard at a marriage retreat back in November and it doesn’t only apply to marriage; it also applies to dating and friendship. I think it’s going to help you in your own relationships and it will help you as you navigate your children’s boundaries in dating and helping them walk through that process.
Between The Lines
Before we get into the topic today, we are going to get into our BTL segment. This is a segment of the show where I discuss what’s going on in my personal life and the lessons I’m learning as a woman of God- a wife, mom, sister, daughter, and aunt. Ok, so one of my mottos in life is, “Don’t sweat the small stuff.” My husband has actually taught me this. So when something happens or there’s a dispute over something, I have to evaluate it to see if it’s worth a conversation or being upset about.
My niece is getting married and she was telling me that her mom and future MIL don’t want there to be a lot of people giving speeches during the reception, yet my niece wants to let anyone who wants to give a speech give one. I guess there’s a schedule they have to stick to and the party is technically over at 10:00. The more speeches there are, the less time for a party they will have.
I don’t know, but I don’t have an opinion about this. I’m kind of like – it’s your weeding. Do what you want. I don’t stress over what the weather is going to be like on that day because if you have a plan B if there’s rain, then you’re set. You’ve planned ahead. So I don’t borrow trouble in that way. I think when moms (or anyone) stress about the small things or the things you have no control over, you stress everyone else out. You also get annoying. So you have to be careful what you sweat over.
Example
Another example is holidays. Someone asked me the other day if I think sharing between two families (your family and the in-laws) is something to consider. Of course I do! I think that whatever standard you have for one family must be set for the other family. However, does it matter that the get-together is on the actual holiday or is the most important matter that you get together? I
think if you sweat the idea that it’s not on the actual day (Mother’s Day, Christmas, etc), then you stress everyone out. But if you just want to make sure you all get together to celebrate that thing, then you will not sweat the small stuff. It’s been very helpful for me to remain calm in situations that I don’t have control over OR in situations that have a really easy solution. If not, we end up becoming, dare I say, a nag.
We make everything a big thing.
A few weeks ago, my husband and son were trying to figure out next steps for my son and his fiancé as they look to get married in November. As they were discussing him moving out and figuring out living conditions, I started to get annoyed at my husband for all of the recommendations he gave my son because each one pushed my son further and further from our home.
Then my son turned to me and asked, “What do you think, mama?”
I did not voice my frustration before this and I tried really hard to keep it in because I knew it was only out of emotion that I was getting frustrated.
I told him, “My opinion doesn’t matter. And I won’t give you a reasonable answer. And I will only tell you what I want you to do and in reality, any of these options will work as long as it financially works for you. So pick without me.” I didn’t want to sweat the small stuff and in my heart, I was sweating the small stuff. I was being unreasonable. So I removed myself from the decision so I don’t control the situation.
When you sweat the small stuff, you end up controlling the situation and maybe you don’t need to control it. Maybe you need to let it play out or trust your kids, or your husband, or whoever is involved. Because if you sweat the small stuff, you’re going to end up pushing people away or irritating them.
Here’s what’re going to talk about today:
- Blog post: Friend or Faux
- The Relationship Ladder
- What the Bible says
Friend or Faux Blog
Relationship Ladder
As I mentioned, my husband and I went to a marriage retreat in November and the leaders handed out a relationship ladder sheet to show the proper process or order of navigating a relationship as you date and then eventually get married. We’re going to discuss that because I think it’s helpful when guiding your kids on navigating dating. I posted a blog post last week about dating a project or a partner and mentioned that I raised the dating age to 18 for my youngest and many of your agreed. But that relationship ladder also applies in all other relationships too. So that’s what I want to bring to the table today as well.
What is the relationship ladder?
I don’t know where the paper is that they gave me but I do remember the rungs on the ladder. They were:
Knowledge
Recreation
Emotion
Spiritual
Physical
Now remembers, this is for dating and then marriage but we’re going to talk about how some of these apply to all relationships and how the others are for marriage ONLY.
Knowledge
Every relationship is built on knowledge, or getting to know, the other person. Getting to know someone takes time. You have to have conversations, be around each other, and invest in getting to know their interests, what they value, what they believe, their politics. It’s the part of the relationship that takes the most time before you want to start going further up the ladder.
It’s here that relationships begin to be put into categories:
Acquaintance/Peer
Friend
Date
Mentor
Mentee
(Where does family fall?)
This is why I am not particularly fond of dating apps. Now, don’t get me wrong. I know people who have fallen in love and met their spouses through these apps. I just think it’s going to take a lot longer to get to know someone this way. There are limitations here.
So remember that getting to know someone is the first rung on the ladder and it takes the longest amount of time. It’s worth the investment because then you know what kind of relationship you’re getting into and what type of relationship you’re going to have with that person.
Recreation
The second rung is recreation. This is where you begin to share your interests and open up your life to that person. When I lived in California, I met a lot of people at my crossfit gym and as we got to know each other a lot of us went to the same church or we had BBQs and get-togethers. This is where we deepened our relationship as we hung out outside of our normal gym environment. Inviting others into your life takes the relationship to a deeper level.
Again, this is where you begin to realize what kind of relationship you’re developing. If you never hang out or do things together, your relationship is limited to the environment in which you met the person – work, church, your kids’ school, certain events. I’m not saying you have to do recreational activities with everyone you know. But I am saying that once you get to know someone and you don’t do anything together, your relationship is not going to grow.
This second rung on the ladder really is taking the relationship to the next level.
If you know people and they never invite you over, or they don’t accept your invitations to do anything, they don’t want to pursue a deeper relationship.
I’ve said this before, but as I moved from California, I had what I thought were strong relationships with people over there. But as we moved here I realized that many of the relationships were superficial. I did a lot of the inviting and the other party did not. I made it a point to see certain people – even family members -and once we moved the relationship pretty much dissolved.
If you don’t have a good relationship, or if you have a one-sided relationship, when you place a hardship on it like distance or some burden, the weakness is going to show and the relationship is going to break. So I think this rung on the ladder is very telling. It’s easy to build a relationship with someone you have to see every day at work. Another example: But when you switch jobs you realize the relationship was convenient rather than deep. Relationships take work so you have to work at growing closer and staying connected otherwise they will naturally grow apart. Recreation is one way to do that.
Emotion
When you share your goals, dreams, and hurts, or fears with someone, you are getting emotionally invested. When you get emotionally invested, you are going further up the ladder and deepening your relationship. This is for every relationship. That’s why family bonds are often greater. We know each other’s hopes and fears. We’ve been through things together and the bond is always the emotional tie.
According to Calm.com, they say:
“An emotional connection is sometimes difficult to define as it’s not as basic as simply liking or loving someone. Deep emotional connections are a special bond with those we know or admire. They’re more than talking about the weather or what you had for lunch. An emotional connection is about sharing feelings, being vulnerable, having trust, and seeking to understand each other.
Having an emotional connection isn’t just about talking either, it’s about feeling close, valued, and cared for by the other person. It’s that comforting feeling you get when you know someone’s there for you, truly listening, and being willing to understand your emotions. Being emotionally connected to a person is about being there for each other through the good times and the hard times. This connection builds trust in a relationship, making it stronger and more meaningful.”
They go on to say:
“An emotional relationship is a deep, meaningful connection between two people based on trust, understanding, and shared emotions. Unlike purely physical or casual relationships, emotional relationships often involve strong feelings of attachment, support, and intimacy.
Emotional relationships can exist in many forms—between friends, family members, or romantic partners. They are characterized by emotional closeness, deep conversations, and the ability to share personal thoughts and feelings without fear of judgment.”
This obviously doesn’t happen with many people. This is your close circle. I think you have to be careful here because Proverbs 4:23 tells us, “Above all else, guard your heart for out of it flow all the issues of life.” We have to be careful who we attach ourselves to emotionally. We have to do this with acquaintances; we have to do this in marriage so we guard our own relationship with our spouse. And we have to teach our kids to do this while looking for a mate because they can fall in love with the wrong person and kids don’t handle this kind of emotional attachment as well as an adult.This is where heartbreak happens.
Spritiual Zone
The next two rungs on the ladder are in the marriage zone, but I’d say the spiritual intimacy can also be in the friend zone rather than just for marriage and I’ll explain why.
The leaders of the marriage retreat said you should only pray with your spouse. Do not pray with your boyfriend or anyone of the opposite sex 1-1. When you do, you’re also mixing the emotional intimacy with the spiritual intimacy. So this really applies to the opposite sex here. A woman should not pray with any man that is not her husband when they are 1-1. A man should not pray with a woman who is not his wife when it’s 1-1. Now, when you have a friend of the same sex I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. James tells us to tell confess our sins to each other so I think when you and you friend can bear each other’s burdens and pray for each others weakness and sins, it’s a strong bond you have. You trust her and she trusts you.
But when you’re dating (because you taught your kid to look for a partner and not a project – linking that in the show notes too) they are already guarding their hearts and looking for a prospective spouse. They have to be careful not to put themselves into a situation where they grow in intimacy beyond the commitment of the relationship. One of the pastors at our church said,”Don’t let the intimacy of the relationship outpace the commitment.” So good! So prayer between a man and a woman ought to be kept for marriage because it cultivates spiritual intimacy and that is also strengthening the emotional connection. It sets them up for heartbreak if that relationship doesn’t turn out right.
Physical intimacy
Obviously this is reserved for marriage. The problem is that doesn’t seem to be so obvious to many. According to a Pew Research report from 2020, 57% of self-identified Christians say it’s acceptable for Christians to have sex in a committed relationship. Half say it’s ok for Christians to have casual sex before marriage. What does that mean? It means these Christians bypass the “getting to know you” stage of a relationship and jump right into the emotional and physical rung on the ladder (which I would also argue is the spiritual rung because God created sex to unite the husband and wife in marriage because it is a spiritual union). We are not teaching our kids the proper path to a healthy marriage.
When it comes to marriage, it is a sacred union. There is no other man on earth that has the right to his wife’s body but him. There is no other woman on earth who has the right to physical intimacy with the man she married except her. When you think of it like that it’s beautiful. But unfortunately Christians aren’t protecting the sacred union of sex within marriage and for that reason we aren’t protecting marriage.
What the Bible says
I was talking to a college student the other day and I told her that her friendships matter. She said when she’s around the family that she wants to be better. I told her that iron sharpens iron – that’s what Proverbs tells us. You want to surround yourself with people who make you better. Instead, we can invest in people who dull our conscience, dull our attitude, and don’t make us better. Those people might have their place in your life, but to call them a friend doesn’t add up to what God has already told us in His word.
While putting people in their proper categories of relationships, we have to remember a few verses:
- 2 Corinthians 6:14, “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?”
2. Matthew 5:14, “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
3. John 3:20, “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.”
Do you see the pattern here?
We see the contrast of light and darkness. In that first run of the ladder – knowledge, or getting to know someone – we should be discerning who is walking in the light and who is walking in the darkness. You are the light of the world, but what does that mean in regard to your relationship with others? Does that mean you are to hang out with unbelievers on the weekends or invest in them beyond the level of an acquaintance? I think we have to remember John 3:20 – that those who hate the light will not come into it.
The light will repel some.
And if you have friends who walk in darkness and are not willing to come to the light one of two things will happen:
- They will either stop contacting you and you will grow further apart since that is the natural course of someone who hates the truth.
Or
2. You will be drug into the dark by your friends. Don’t forget what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:33, “Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” We have to be careful in our relationships and identify where each person fits. Those who want to be your friend but want you to come to the dark side really only want you to change so they don’t have to. And it’s not that we should look to change anyone. Only God can do that. But I think that sometimes we don’t want to lose anyone so we end up compromising. Don’t do that. When you do, your morals are slowing being corrupted and you won’t keep a friend that way.
These are simple truths to think about in all of our relationships. The further up the ladder we go, the deeper into the relationship we get. We have to be careful to put everything in it’s proper order and place.
Close:
Let me recap some of this with what I think are the three key takeaways:
- Every relationship fits into a category of:
Acquaintance/Peer
Friend
Date
Mentor
Mentee
2. There is a process to any relationship that will take it to the next leave but assessing that relationship helps you not outpace the commitment. For example, don’t call get emotionally invested with someone who is just an acquaintance. You’re risking heartbreak and future hurt if you don’t know what that person will do with those sensitive issues.
3. You can’t change someone who loves the evil deeds of darkness. If you call yourself a Christian yet you and your friends are bonding over partying and causal hook-ups, or even raunchy movies (or fill in the blank) – how can you do that? What fellowship does darkness have with the light? Your friend will pull you into the dark before you will ever pull them into the light.
It’s ok to have a small circle of friends or family. To have one good friend is to be rich. To have one good friend who speaks wisdom, prays for you, talks with you – that’s a blessing. Keep your relationships in their proper categories and guard the valuable relationships you have. Teach your kids to do the same. If you have any questions for me email me at hello@shandafulbright.com and I’ll catch you on the next one.
Leave a Reply